Report 997
Report #997 Skillset: Moon Skill: Dark Org: Serenguard Status: Completed Dec 2012 Furies' Decision: We don't want to make dark uncurable so will not remove the focus spirit cure. We will, however, drop the cost to 3 power for the room version. Problem: Dark is a skill that can be cast at a single target for 5 power or at the room for 8 power and dependent on enemy lists. The current afflictions given by either version are: confusion, dementia, paranoia, stupidity and amnesia. One of the most powerful aspects of dark is its ability to strip nearly any non- power defense invisibly while on the target. However, this effect is overestimated in its usefulness as the caster cannot really capitalize on a random missing defense of which there are many in the entire game. The targeted version is cureable by focus spirit and if cast by a warrior is usually cured away as soon as it is cast with impunity. The room version is hindered by the effects of love potion or by switching rooms. When you compare the effects of dark to other abilities such as timeechoes, reality, oracle and greywhispers, it costs quite a lot more, is easily done away with and has less affliction potential. All of dark's afflictions are covered by eating pennyroyal and most by focusing mind. This report seeks to change the targeted version to be something that both Moondancers and Serenguard will actually use for a reason other than bored whimsy. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Leave the room version of dark as it is. Reduce the targeted version to 3p, remove its ability to strip defenses, remove its focus spirit cure and include peace in the list of afflictions it can give out. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Leave the room version of dark as it is. Reduce the targeted version to 3p, remove its ability to strip defenses, remove its focus spirit cure and speed up its tic rate about 25%. 0 R: 0 Solution #3: Leave the room version of dark as it is. Reduce the targeted version to 3p, reduce the chance to strip defenses to a small chance (~5%) and remove the focus spirit cure. ///// Alternatively, as a solution 4, as per Enyalida's comments, solution 3 with removal of the def stripping completely. Player Comments: ---on 12/3 @ 00:18 writes: Opposed. Trying to mimic oracle and greywhispers is just bad news for balance in general, specifically the part where it's impossible to cure and a huge nuisance. We need to be bringing these affliction bombs from Researchers and Illuminati down, not raise other skills to compete with them. If you want to work something out and keep the focus spirit cure, I'm game, otherwise it's a big fat opposed. ---on 12/3 @ 12:55 writes: Greywhispers is the only problematic one to deal with from that list as it can pull from an array of any mental affliction in the game. Oracles' afflictions are all covered by eating wormwood and TimeEchoes is completely covered by eating pennyroyal except for when it tics with epilepsy. Systems have no issue dealing with either of the two skills mentioned, and my suggestion here does not even include any doses of timewarp or temporaryinsanity to hinder focus mind curing. Your objections to me seem entirely unfounded. As far as the focus spirit curing goes, I'm opposed to leaving that part of the skill in. If you're going to make it cureable by focus spirit, we'll have to make it much stronger than what I'm proposing here. Like I said, while focus spirit does help a wiccan receive their mana kills, you can cure it before it even tics if given from a warrior without any risk and have had them wasted a lot of power to do it (which warriors need to get anywhere). It goes completely unused by Moondancers and Serenguard and I just see absolutely no reason why it should remain the way it is! If you want to suggest a different set of afflictions or additional effect to make this worth using, please suggest them. But I prefer to move to something short lived and incureable so Serenguard can take advantage of it too, while reducing the power cost so its most palatable for both classes sharing the skillset. You mention us having to move away from illuminati and researcher 'affliction bombs', however my suggestions are tamer and far more reasonable and are meant to be added to a skillset with significantly less synergy and offensive output than the ones you're comparing it to. Further, I don't see these skillsets being brought down to the level of older, outdated ones like moon anytime soon and it's unfair that older skillsets be left behind. ---on 12/3 @ 23:03 writes: I can comment for the moondancers that Targeted Moondance Dark is considered a weak attack of little use in higher level combat. I personally think the defence stripping adds variety to its effects and occasionally catches people out - but is very hard to work with. The power cost is high, especially for a Wiccan who then needs power to be able to Toadcurse, the only really effective way that a Moondancer can secure demise of their oponent. It might be sufficient to give it a lower power cost, and make it incurable with a choice of afflictions that take 4 different remedies. Alternatively, reducing the power cost and adjusting afflictions so that they interfere more effectively with curing , such as paralysis taking focus balance, and anorexia. ---on 12/4 @ 01:43 writes: Oh gosh, text well. You went on about a lot of things, so I'll just reiterate my core concern, I dislike the trend of making things incurable. I'm totally supportive of cutting the power cost for targeted dark. 3 or 4 power would make it strategically useful for moondancers. Beyond that, I think you're entering into "want" territory, rather than reporting on what you "need." Unfortunately you're in the awkward "we share skills with wiccans" boat. I think the focus spirit is an important balancing factor for wiccan mana drain and afflition potential, but also for the targets curing. It may suck for warriors, but alas, such is the way of sharing skills with wiccans/guardians. ---on 12/4 @ 02:37 writes: I support solution 3, more or less. Remove the def stripping, the focus spirit cure, and lower the power cost to 4p. It's slower than lawlgreywhispers (clocking in at 10 seconds), and wiccans/warriors have less AffPotential/CureHindering than Illuminati by a very long ways, so that's not really an apt comparison. The focus spirit mana cost on me is only somewhat lower than the mana drain attached to the instant effect of succumb, and only somewhat lower than my mana sip amount (which has no bonuses), so I'm not seeing a strategic use for the skill as it is now with even 3p. In the 8 seconds it'd take to regen 1p to get back to 8 power I could have sipped mana twice (and therefore have focus spirited twice with little to no mana loss) and dark still would not have ticked even a single time. ---on 12/4 @ 02:38 writes: That's not even taking into account sparkleberry or healing scroll. ---on 12/4 @ 04:47 writes: I question whether this is necessary, as commune warriors don't particularly need more afflicting potential in addition to their stat bonuses, in my experience; however, I'm not vehemently opposed to solution 4. ---on 12/4 @ 12:36 writes: I would say adding some sort of vague utility to a completely ununsed skill is necessary, sure. Why have it otherwise? Keep in mind, commune warriors may have stat bonuses, but they don't have the sort of useful offensive attacks from their tertiaries to compare with chaos aura, greywhispers, badluck, crucify, ectoplasm, deathmarks, judgement and the inquisition chain. With the exception of waning which is fairly unwieldly anyway, Moon seems to restrict the warrrior to knighthood entirely for offensive purposes. While it's true that the stat bonuses do help, they're not nearly as impactful as people make them out to be, especially to deny extra affliction potential in an endgame where warriors always fall behind other classes. Also, be aware all of the solutions presented are intended to cost 3p and any experienced warrior can tell you they won't be able to afford putting this up for than once during a fight. It's short lived enough as it is already as well. I also should state that it's very hard to deny that moondancers don't have a lot of affliction potential on their own either, so the shared skillset is not even close to a problem. One could even say that they could use the minor boost this offers. ---on 12/7 @ 17:24 writes: Solution 3 supported for 3p cost, remove focus spirit cure, and remove defense stripping. ---on 12/10 @ 20:59 writes: I like solution 3, Thoros version ---on 12/12 @ 19:49 writes: The Enyalida/Thoros solution supported. ---on 12/23 @ 18:27 writes: I can agree that a reduction in power cost is necessary, and I don't think the spirit cure and defense stripping is necessary, but I will support solution 3